Ep45 Building Relationships in Real Estate: Insights from a Boutique Brokerage with Tom Gayman

[00:00:00] Bringing Everybody Back to the Office, I can respect that, but taking care of your people translates to loyal people, loyal employees, and people that will, and you're on the island. They'll deliver.

[00:00:12] From cornfields to high-rises, office to industrial, houses to hotels, and every other asset class in real estate, we cover the people, the projects, and the profit.

[00:00:22] Welcome to the Investing in Iowa Show. This show is for go-doers, action-takers, and business owners.

[00:00:29] It's for people like you who are sick of Uncle Sam taking a huge bite of your apple.

[00:00:34] If you're looking to get ahead of what's taking place in Iowa, learn who is doing what and how you can get in on the action, you're in the right place.

[00:00:43] Hosted by Neil Timmins, an Iowa native who has been involved in over $300 million in real estate right here in Iowa.

[00:00:51] Recording in studio from West Des Moines, here's your host, Neil Timmins.

[00:00:57] I've got Tom Gaiman here on the show. Tom, welcome.

[00:01:00] Thank you, Neil. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm super excited to have an opportunity to visit with you.

[00:01:04] I'm excited you're here. Say for the audience's sake, who are you? Where are you from? What do you do?

[00:01:08] Again, thank you for the opportunity. Tom Gaiman. I have my own boutique brokerage operation performance realty LLC.

[00:01:17] I started it about five and a half years ago. It's just been so much fun. I'm born and raised here in Des Moines.

[00:01:27] And so I know the Des Moines market and most of the suburbs really well. I grew up around 39th at Kingman, Hubble School and Callanan School in Roosevelt.

[00:01:37] And then went to Grandview College. And commercial real estate has always, I've always had an interest for commercial real estate.

[00:01:46] When I started in the property management side of the business, actually, and then I migrated over the years to the brokerage side, I would tell you, I found the brokerage side to be very, and not that the property management isn't, but I just enjoyed the brokerage side.

[00:02:03] I married my high school sweetheart, Darlene. We started dating at Roosevelt and we've been married for, will be 46 years.

[00:02:11] And three grown children. I'm very blessed. I love the business. I love talking to people.

[00:02:18] And I love solving problems for real estate investors or clients.

[00:02:24] I'm curious, you spent a lot of time in the property management world. What did you take out of property management that you've applied to your brokerage role to help advise clients?

[00:02:34] Take care of the customer. That's number one.

[00:02:36] If there was anything else I learned about the property management is your client is your lifeline to business. And if you take care of your client, they'll take care of you.

[00:02:47] And fundamentally, that transition out of property management with that relationship customer mindset, I think that is one of the reasons as a small one-person brokerage company, that's what I strive for.

[00:03:03] I take care of my customers and I'll do whatever needs to be done to make sure that they're well taken care of.

[00:03:10] Is there an asset class that you spend more time in versus others?

[00:03:15] Most of the time, it's generally office, the office market, the industrial market, flex. And I have done some land sales. Matter of fact, I have a land sale that should be clothing today. But my experience, I haven't done much retail. I follow retail a little bit, but my expertise has really been over the years in the office.

[00:03:35] But Tom, is an office dead? If this is all I hear about, of course, you and I chatting about the particular office we're sitting here, Mike.

[00:03:41] Sure. We've been over the years and have a tremendous positive experience in the last two years of ownership. So what am I or what are the rest of the world? What are we missing?

[00:03:50] It's been an interesting couple of years for the office market. But I would tell you the office market, it does have its challenges and it has its challenges here in Moyniac.

[00:03:59] The one thing that has been carrying, obviously, the back to work phenomenon of we'd like to have everybody back in the office and back in your seat and what have you.

[00:04:11] That's getting mixed reviews, quite frankly.

[00:04:13] But the small business and the medium-sized regional companies are very engaged in leasing space.

[00:04:22] If you look at some of the market data that has come out just in the second quarter, there was 49 office transactions done in the metro area.

[00:04:34] Average square footies, though, was about $4,000, $37,000, $4,000 feet.

[00:04:39] I mean, it's just a thank goodness for small business, small business, regional businesses.

[00:04:43] I think what's going on is a lot of these larger companies are saying we are going to have, they've just come to terms with, there's going to be a segment of the employee market that are going to work from home.

[00:04:56] And so if I'm in, if I'm, excuse me, running a business and we're in 20,000 square feet, I have calls, find me 8,000, find me 9,000 square feet.

[00:05:08] And if they're in 10, it's find me five.

[00:05:10] Now, the interesting dynamics about all that with the office market is now the baton is getting passed to we want everybody back in the big answer.

[00:05:20] And we want everybody back.

[00:05:21] And some people are saying, I'm not coming back.

[00:05:24] Correct.

[00:05:25] And then the office users that, and the landlords and the owners of office buildings have got to get very creative in what will bring those employees to their office.

[00:05:36] Yes.

[00:05:37] And it's interesting because I've followed that now even more so on, well, it's going to bring them back to the office and it's the amenities.

[00:05:48] But it's got to be more than the gym and the conference site.

[00:05:52] And it was funny because it was just last night I was reading a Wall Street Journal of property on the West Coast.

[00:06:00] And I just thought it was interesting.

[00:06:02] They were talking about bringing employees back to the office.

[00:06:05] There was an 11-story building in Culver City, California that a developer bought, got a great price on it.

[00:06:13] But the interesting thing was this particular building, the ownership group looked at what is going to bring these people back to this building.

[00:06:24] They equipped it with completely renovated the lobby.

[00:06:28] They put in a movie seat.

[00:06:30] They put in golf simulators, fitness centers, tenant lounges, coffee shop, ping pong tables, arcades.

[00:06:41] Surprising.

[00:06:41] He has 100%.

[00:06:43] His building is 100% lease, 400,000s worth.

[00:06:47] So I think you've got to, the landlords just have to get more creative in what is going to bring these people back.

[00:06:54] Now, there's got to be people that are just not going to come back.

[00:06:57] Where they land, it's clear.

[00:06:59] But I think the office market will come back.

[00:07:02] It is coming.

[00:07:03] You hear all the developers here locally talking about, we're getting clients to renew their leases.

[00:07:10] They may be renewing their leases on some more footprints.

[00:07:13] But they are renewing their leases.

[00:07:16] And there is not a lot of large transactions in the office.

[00:07:21] The big one that everybody's totally aware of is with the American equity books move.

[00:07:26] Right.

[00:07:27] That's a big play.

[00:07:28] Maybe the other one for this year is Maverick down at the location.

[00:07:33] But there's just not the volume of large.

[00:07:35] Do you think some of that is largely due to uncertainty in our economic environment?

[00:07:41] So not just the work from home.

[00:07:46] It has to do with the fact that in the last two years, interest rates doubled.

[00:07:49] Now we're starting to get some reprieve now.

[00:07:51] But you have a two-year tremendous uncertainty about where things are going, what, and where rates are added,

[00:07:56] and what that means to somebody's top and bottom line inside of a business.

[00:08:00] There has been, since that I have seen in my business, and you're spot on, there has been the term that I used.

[00:08:06] It has come my way from other brokers, other investors, is we are on pause.

[00:08:12] We are on pause right now because of interest rates.

[00:08:15] We are on pause right now because of high construction costs.

[00:08:20] We are on pause because of the current political.

[00:08:23] We're on pause.

[00:08:25] Okay.

[00:08:25] So pause, they're not saying no.

[00:08:28] They are just waiting for a better time to approach railage.

[00:08:32] And I think with the recent interest rate reduction, I've heard that certain componentry of construction ingredients to build are starting to come down.

[00:08:41] I'm optimistic that I think hopefully 2025 will really send us in the right direction.

[00:08:50] But to answer your question, absolutely.

[00:08:52] My world has been on pause, it's smaller office transactions, but the larger companies have just been.

[00:09:00] Yeah.

[00:09:01] As your business, do you find yourself heavily focused on these transactions versus sales travel?

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[00:09:48] I spend probably more time on these transactions.

[00:09:51] Sales, a lot of times the larger firms or I just don't get that opportunity.

[00:09:58] Have I bought and sold some buildings?

[00:10:00] Absolutely.

[00:10:01] But most of those sale transactions in my business is generally generated through a relationship with the client.

[00:10:10] But do you find the lease piece, the lease work, more reward?

[00:10:15] I ask because it seems like you could more, you know, the sale work is a lot of us numbers driven by financial return.

[00:10:21] On the lease side, you're working in an amethyst center to help them move through business.

[00:10:25] To be perfectly honest, yes.

[00:10:28] I think the lease, you get to know your client a lot.

[00:10:31] You too want to understand what their specific needs are for their space.

[00:10:37] It's not.

[00:10:38] I do.

[00:10:38] I just prefer not.

[00:10:40] I shouldn't say prefer.

[00:10:41] The leasing component just has a lot more various activities, componentry to it.

[00:10:47] That just makes it more exciting to your point.

[00:10:50] The sales are number crunching and where's the cap rate added, where it's the, and not that obviously that's important stuff.

[00:10:57] Don't get me wrong, but just to get excited.

[00:11:00] I like the lease both on the industrial side, the flex side and the office side.

[00:11:05] And that's probably where I.

[00:11:06] Yeah.

[00:11:07] It seems like you get to understand your car park.

[00:11:09] You also probably get to understand their business.

[00:11:11] And as a result, a variety of businesses that really fund and jewel this city because all these buildings are made up by people doing things here.

[00:11:22] That's right.

[00:11:23] And I think there's a, you know, and we're going through a little bit of a renaissance right now.

[00:11:26] You've got what's going on downtown, you know, with a lot of the apartment conversions, condo conversions.

[00:11:33] You get the financials, you're doing that.

[00:11:35] Yeah.

[00:11:36] Sure.

[00:11:36] It's taking a lot of square footage out of the vacancy.

[00:11:39] Great.

[00:11:39] Great.

[00:11:39] But there's just a lot of different things going on.

[00:11:43] And I think if you go out West, some of the more advanced, sophisticated landlords are trying to do, take a careful look at that amenity package and what's important.

[00:11:54] But, but it is an end time.

[00:11:57] And I think hopefully we will get back to one of the concerns that I have is, and I haven't seen much of it this year with a larger Upluxo business too.

[00:12:10] To Devoin rather than the state of Iowa.

[00:12:12] We need to have more.

[00:12:14] We've got a great place to live.

[00:12:15] We've got a great spouse to raise a family.

[00:12:17] We've got great, we got, it's a great place.

[00:12:21] Iowa is a great state.

[00:12:22] So I'm optimistic with things, at least the attorney in a favorable side that will get some business.

[00:12:29] What's going on in industrial world?

[00:12:32] Industrial world is interesting.

[00:12:34] Three, roughly last check, over 3.5 million.

[00:12:37] Vacant warehouse space.

[00:12:39] All new, must be new, high cube stuff.

[00:12:42] All the suburbs have money.

[00:12:44] You look at Grimes, you look at Chona, you look at Ankeny, you look at.

[00:12:47] And there was this run two years ago, three years ago, where everything, it was 100,000 square foot users and they were just crawling.

[00:12:58] And I think that has slowed dramatically.

[00:13:02] But during that timeframe, the landlords just started building.

[00:13:06] And they just built.

[00:13:07] In January, I took a tour purposely and we drove the entire market.

[00:13:13] We came up with about 3.8 million square feet of vacancy.

[00:13:17] Now there has been four or five large transactions.

[00:13:20] I see large being 100,000 square feet of rear, but by large, it's the 15 to 40,000 square foot users.

[00:13:29] Logistics have changed so much.

[00:13:31] Just in time, delivery has changed so much.

[00:13:34] So there's a lot of vacant space that needs to be filled.

[00:13:38] And this stuff is brand new product with high rents.

[00:13:41] Yeah, there's a learning curve to that.

[00:13:44] Had a gentleman, I showed some warehouse space too, and he was thinking we were talking $6 range.

[00:13:51] And this was, so there's some variance there.

[00:13:54] And I think there are a number of prospects and clients out there that are going to pull the trigger.

[00:14:01] And lease some of that space, but it is going to be the $100,000 square foot.

[00:14:06] It's the $20,000, the $50,000, the $40,000 square foot.

[00:14:10] It's going to take time to chop through that.

[00:14:11] I thought through that.

[00:14:13] And you've probably seen it as well.

[00:14:15] I don't see anybody currently great to build a $200,000.

[00:14:19] Yeah, it seems like between a combination of the new builds that have come online and where we're at from a construction standpoint.

[00:14:26] Yeah.

[00:14:27] Construction looks dramatically different today in every asset cost.

[00:14:32] Absolute company.

[00:14:33] Absolutely.

[00:14:33] I see that the flex market, that's good for these smaller companies.

[00:14:40] Right.

[00:14:40] That need the $5,000 or maybe $10,000 square feet.

[00:14:44] That seems to still be a relatively active market.

[00:14:46] I looked at data that came out.

[00:14:48] One of the reports on lease transactions were industrial.

[00:14:53] $58,000.

[00:14:55] So the flex market is getting some of that action.

[00:14:58] It's just these large, yeah, large facilities are, it's going to be.

[00:15:02] Yeah.

[00:15:03] That, it comes to mind on the flex side is, if you look historically, the footprints weren't that big to begin with, meaning the total building size.

[00:15:13] So absolutely.

[00:15:13] I got a few signatures, got one over in Hart 2 and Abudu.

[00:15:17] We've got a few, certainly the total over $100,000 square feet.

[00:15:20] But by and large, historical flex was never that big on the total footprint.

[00:15:25] That's right, that building.

[00:15:26] That's right.

[00:15:27] Wow.

[00:15:27] Absolutely.

[00:15:28] And there's demand for it.

[00:15:29] There is a lot of demand for it.

[00:15:31] And I just talked to signature this week.

[00:15:33] And I assured them, too, that a branch at the ceiling height is a little small.

[00:15:38] It's not as tall, 26.

[00:15:39] It's layer.

[00:15:40] It's what else.

[00:15:41] It's not any of the industrial products.

[00:15:43] It's a flex.

[00:15:44] Yeah.

[00:15:44] But it is leasing out.

[00:15:46] Yeah.

[00:15:46] And so I agree with you 100%.

[00:15:49] And I think that was probably one of the largest flex builders.

[00:15:52] Sure.

[00:15:53] In recent.

[00:15:54] So I think that probably goes back to what we just talked about with the office leasing,

[00:15:59] that it's these smaller transactions in terms of square footage.

[00:16:02] The smaller transactions as it relates to these businesses that need the 15 to 40,000 square feet.

[00:16:09] Now, I think landlords at the time, I remember back when the market was super hot with large potential clients out there.

[00:16:17] There were some developers that were basically saying, we don't want all these two.

[00:16:21] We're going to hold our property for the next 100,000 square foot views.

[00:16:26] Yeah.

[00:16:26] Which was really surprising.

[00:16:28] Yeah.

[00:16:28] And their comeback was, let's just a tremendous amount of volume right now.

[00:16:32] And we don't want to pay the price to put in a separation in my eyes.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:35] And we don't want to pay all those numbers to it.

[00:16:37] So we just don't want to go.

[00:16:38] We're going to wait.

[00:16:39] Now, you can pretty much call them all and say, I've got a 25 to 20,000 square foot user.

[00:16:43] And then they're just more than happy to show you the space.

[00:16:46] Over the last couple of years, there's been a pretty significant shift.

[00:16:50] Yeah.

[00:16:51] So as you look in the next year, 2025, what's your crystal ball today?

[00:16:55] Where are we going with some of this?

[00:16:56] And what are you most excited about?

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[00:17:32] I am optimistic about 2025.

[00:17:34] I just think that we've been in a long waiting period too.

[00:17:39] Where's the soft landing coming?

[00:17:41] When is it coming?

[00:17:43] Inflation.

[00:17:44] All the economic turmoil that's going on right now.

[00:17:48] I think the Fed did a good job with, I was excited to hear a half a percentage point.

[00:17:53] I think everybody, at least I was thinking they're going to be very conservative to do a quarter of a point.

[00:17:58] I've also heard I was excited on the half point.

[00:18:01] And that may get another reduction before the end of the year.

[00:18:04] So now we're going to go into 25, which I seek some optimism.

[00:18:10] I think people that I'm talking to are saying, we're preparing our budgets right now.

[00:18:16] The budgets are being completed.

[00:18:18] They're going to owners.

[00:18:20] They're going to the board for approval.

[00:18:21] Well, we have expansion plans in 2025.

[00:18:24] So what does that mean?

[00:18:26] It may be an expansion in the office market.

[00:18:30] It may be an expansion in the industrial market.

[00:18:33] Retail is still, but we got 3.8 vacancy and retail around here.

[00:18:37] It's just on fire.

[00:18:38] You build it and they lease it out and tell them, of course, it's been great.

[00:18:41] There's things, there's positive things that have been going on in the retail market.

[00:18:45] And then you get the, I think a lot of it is current budget dollars are shot.

[00:18:50] Yeah.

[00:18:51] They're waiting for the ownership group to approve the budget.

[00:18:56] That all gets done by the end of the year.

[00:18:58] January, everybody's off and run.

[00:19:01] Showings pick up.

[00:19:02] Activity picks up.

[00:19:03] People get very optimistic.

[00:19:06] Transactions start going into the proposal form and the potential lease form second quarter,

[00:19:12] maybe get executed third quarter.

[00:19:14] It just seems, at least for my business, that's how it works.

[00:19:17] Now, I'm just a small brokerage company, but to answer your question, I'm optimistic.

[00:19:21] I would like to see more growth of new business coming to the city.

[00:19:26] Sure.

[00:19:26] And we got the partnership working at it.

[00:19:29] We had the big regional event get together next week, October 3rd,

[00:19:34] to bring all the communities together.

[00:19:36] And I do think we probably need more regional and community participation

[00:19:41] to try to get deals done.

[00:19:42] And we'll learn that.

[00:19:44] I spent 12 years on the Urbandale City Council.

[00:19:47] And where we are in the world today, it's not about just Urbandale.

[00:19:51] No, it's about the region.

[00:19:53] It's about the Azacom.

[00:19:54] It's about what I want.

[00:19:56] How are we going to work together to grow?

[00:19:59] And I think that's out there.

[00:20:01] I think we need to turn up the heat a little bit more on that.

[00:20:04] But I'm optimistic.

[00:20:06] If you can get the bodies here, ultimately, every city's going to win.

[00:20:09] That's right.

[00:20:09] Everybody's going to get a slice of the pie.

[00:20:12] Absolutely.

[00:20:12] You're spot on.

[00:20:13] It's going to be interesting.

[00:20:14] You're reading about Amazon.

[00:20:16] He just came out, said, Urband's come back.

[00:20:18] Five days wait.

[00:20:20] We're going to get back in action.

[00:20:21] How is that going to be perceived and digested with the other CEOs around the country?

[00:20:27] I've been reading about that.

[00:20:29] It's all under the microscope right now.

[00:20:31] Are we going to do it?

[00:20:32] Or what are we going to do?

[00:20:34] I've seen the benefits of some hybrid work where in the office, maybe three days a week.

[00:20:40] And you could still do.

[00:20:41] And there are a lot of companies that are thriving in that model.

[00:20:45] So that component's going to be interesting just to see how that all plays out in the longer term.

[00:20:50] But I still think, to your point, very much agree with your comment that if everybody gets together, we can all have a slice.

[00:21:01] Yeah.

[00:21:01] Yeah.

[00:21:02] For you, why Iowa?

[00:21:03] What's your...

[00:21:04] It's funny you should say that.

[00:21:05] Because they only...

[00:21:06] I love Iowa primarily because of its people.

[00:21:10] We've got a great employment base.

[00:21:12] We've got just a joy working with the people in Iowa.

[00:21:16] They're honest.

[00:21:17] They've got integrity.

[00:21:18] And then it's just a great place to raise a family.

[00:21:21] All my kids, they all went through the public school system.

[00:21:24] Urban Dow, they've got a great education.

[00:21:26] They all went to great schools for their college.

[00:21:29] We've just had a really positive experience.

[00:21:32] I had, early in my career, when I was doing property management, I had an opportunity to move to San Francisco.

[00:21:40] And my wife and I, we hadn't had any children yet.

[00:21:43] And we were talking about starting family and what have you.

[00:21:46] And we spent some time out there.

[00:21:48] And we told the developer that I was working for that we were going to pass.

[00:21:53] Other than we fell in love.

[00:21:56] Don't get me wrong.

[00:21:56] It was a neat opportunity.

[00:21:59] But we were, it was funny because his comment back to us is, you two are just good old Iowa folks.

[00:22:06] So I had born and raised here.

[00:22:08] Have I got any desire to move elsewhere?

[00:22:11] Only in my latter years here, I'm a mountain man.

[00:22:15] Oh, well, I love to go to the mountains.

[00:22:16] We just came back from Colorado.

[00:22:18] We spend a lot of time in Colorado.

[00:22:20] And if all of our kids and grandkids were not here, all of here in Des Moines, I would consider that too.

[00:22:28] But that's it.

[00:22:29] Otherwise, I just think Iowa is a safe place.

[00:22:32] We've got great people.

[00:22:33] And we've seen a lot.

[00:22:35] We've got our fair share of very unique opportunities here.

[00:22:40] And we've got low unemployment, quality of life, cost, all those things come into play.

[00:22:48] And I think we're just very blessed.

[00:22:50] Oh, I feel right there.

[00:22:51] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:52] Tommy, are you ready to file three questions?

[00:22:54] Absolutely.

[00:22:55] Fire.

[00:22:55] One piece of advice you'd give to your 20-year-old self?

[00:22:58] To myself?

[00:22:59] Yeah.

[00:23:00] Patience.

[00:23:01] Patience.

[00:23:01] Patience is important.

[00:23:03] And I think as you age, you get a little more.

[00:23:06] You want to move at a little faster pace than you want to have patience.

[00:23:09] And I think that's just important for a lot of people.

[00:23:13] I've always, my MO for the business that I'm in is this real estate business is a relationship

[00:23:20] business.

[00:23:21] It's not a transaction.

[00:23:23] So if you want to do commercial real estate and all you're thinking about is the transaction

[00:23:27] and not your client, I don't have any.

[00:23:30] So patience.

[00:23:31] What does the client need?

[00:23:33] What is the problem?

[00:23:34] How can I help?

[00:23:35] And extending that hand to saying, I'm here.

[00:23:37] That's what I try to do every transaction.

[00:23:40] Patience.

[00:23:41] Two books that changed your life.

[00:23:43] The one that comes to mind, short on that, it was Make Your Bed.

[00:23:47] I just found that to be interesting.

[00:23:50] Your take can start with something as innocent.

[00:23:54] So start.

[00:23:54] And I read that book.

[00:23:55] It was a quick read.

[00:23:56] I still have it.

[00:23:57] And every once in a while, I'll pick it up, just shoot through it one more time.

[00:24:00] I try to think of some others, but I read, but I probably read more as it relates to current

[00:24:07] market activity.

[00:24:08] Yeah.

[00:24:08] Wall Street Journal and Barron.

[00:24:10] So all of those just to keep my hand on the market.

[00:24:12] I find you could read.

[00:24:13] Everyone's making better.

[00:24:14] So if you were just away on an island for a year, you could only get three pieces of

[00:24:20] data about your business each every month.

[00:24:23] What three things must you know every month to go to your business?

[00:24:26] Great question.

[00:24:27] How are my people doing?

[00:24:28] Would be, in my opinion, the most important.

[00:24:30] Are we still making money?

[00:24:31] Number two.

[00:24:32] What's the future look like for my business?

[00:24:36] So it's my people.

[00:24:37] People.

[00:24:37] A lot of people talk about all their real estate assets.

[00:24:41] And that's bricks and lumber.

[00:24:42] That's what you and I know.

[00:24:43] The biggest asset that you have is your people or your employees or your assets.

[00:24:48] Your employees and are we still profitable?

[00:24:52] Those are the three important things.

[00:24:55] I think you get it out of the head there.

[00:24:57] People and your employees.

[00:24:58] My world is your vendors too.

[00:24:59] That would go really close.

[00:25:01] Right.

[00:25:02] Absolutely.

[00:25:02] Yep.

[00:25:03] I remember reading a book.

[00:25:04] I was probably 20 years now.

[00:25:05] So the fastest way to become a millionaire is hire that absolute right person.

[00:25:10] It's the fastest way.

[00:25:11] Get into our business.

[00:25:11] Yeah.

[00:25:12] It is.

[00:25:13] Provide that person the tools to be successful.

[00:25:17] That's right.

[00:25:18] And stay out of there.

[00:25:19] Yeah.

[00:25:19] What about that?

[00:25:20] I mean, the micromanagement days are over.

[00:25:23] Yep.

[00:25:23] And I really, the young people today, the jacks, they're going to do it.

[00:25:28] You turn loose.

[00:25:29] I've heard specifics on different companies that are all working.

[00:25:34] The company was a little hesitant, but they've got great people.

[00:25:37] They take care of their people.

[00:25:39] They're not successful.

[00:25:40] So it goes back to what we just talked about.

[00:25:42] I understand all this about, you've got to have some culture and some vibration, bringing everybody back to the office and what have you.

[00:25:50] I can respect that.

[00:25:51] But taking care of your people translates to loyal people, loyal employees, and people that will, and you're on the island.

[00:26:00] They'll deliver.

[00:26:02] Tom, I've asked lots of questions.

[00:26:03] What's one question I did not ask that I should have asked?

[00:26:07] I think the eldest has been a great conversation.

[00:26:09] I think I appreciate the opportunity.

[00:26:11] My perspective is I'm a small brokerage operator.

[00:26:16] Like I mentioned, I love to work with various clients, just really as chip grip a business.

[00:26:22] I'm not the large.

[00:26:24] I will put a plug unit for the smaller brokerage companies because they contribute.

[00:26:30] You may not share a lot of different publications, but it's funny.

[00:26:34] And I made some notes on some of those books.

[00:26:37] Sorry, without, because I know I'll miss somebody's name, but there are some great smaller brokerage houses that deliver results for the benefit of some of a lot.

[00:26:46] And so I think it's, there's a place for us.

[00:26:49] There's a place for the larger corporate entities that we all hopefully play well together.

[00:26:55] And it's all about getting the deal over the future.

[00:26:58] Tom, for people who want to find you, they want to follow you, they want to check out.

[00:27:02] They will check and they go, oh, what should I do?

[00:27:03] My best component tree is LinkedIn.

[00:27:06] I get a lot of feedback and a lot of just great conversations with people at LinkedIn.

[00:27:13] I don't like to do a lot of, I'm face to face.

[00:27:19] Oh.

[00:27:20] I will buy you coffee and let's get together.

[00:27:23] Yeah.

[00:27:24] Because that's really how I've always done business.

[00:27:27] That's not to say that all of the technology that's out there isn't great.

[00:27:32] I use some of it, other components of it I'm highly dangerous with.

[00:27:36] And so I don't use it.

[00:27:38] But an opportunity like this that you shared that had an opportunity to share a little bit of my thoughts on where the market is and what's going on.

[00:27:47] It's greatly appreciated.

[00:27:49] I really want you and wish you and your group nothing but.

[00:27:53] That's right.

[00:27:54] Founders, gentlemen, and a scholar.

[00:27:56] And I appreciate your time being here.

[00:27:58] For everybody, you are listening to our link.

[00:28:01] Again, profiles below in the show notes.

[00:28:04] That's really fine.

[00:28:05] I appreciate being here.

[00:28:06] Thank you so much.

[00:28:08] I pleasure.

[00:28:08] You bet.

[00:28:09] Thanks for listening.

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